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 Post subject: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:44 am
Posts: 7
Ok, So want to discuss with everyone the dilemma here.

So I seemed to have 'hacked' up a version of FP to allow for createobject. This should allow for full access to PuP controller object and even direct DOF controller objects.

it should even make it possible to add full ssf "ball rolling" sounds via activex... and a bunch of other cool things


BUT this also means that vpinmame/b2s can be used in FP, which I'm hearing that the original author never wanted. So i don't want to release the 'hack' if it goes against what he wants.....


BUT its also 10+ years old software... so its abandoned-ware I'd say... so that changes the thinking as well....


thoughts?


here's some videos:



https://youtu.be/cymU5Ez1VMk



https://youtu.be/J_MSmiRTntk


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2823
Location: Ontario, Canada
looks very cool and interesting to me !


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 531
What this opens up is the possibility to do more than what we can do with, for example DOFLinx. (DOFLinx still has it's own benefits)

It would allow for DOF and Pinup Player to directly be usable in the same way as VPX. So this means full direct PUP support (think Scotty Wics tables like Stranger Things SE, TLK, etc) which allows for Text / Scoring support. That would allow for VERY cool possibilities for a DMD replacement (not in the FP window itself, but in a separate window like Future DMD).

It also "may" allow for a more direct SSF implementation without needing PuP-Packs.

You could probably even use UltraDMD.

Of course...many may want VPinMAME to be used. Even if this is opened up... I don't see a flood of tables using it, as most FP tables already had the groundwork of their own code done. That said, it would be VERY cool to see for example SAM system implemented, or colourized DMDs, and of course external DLL / freezy / pupdmdcontrol support for rom based tables.

I can see someone like smoke or fransisco666 benefitting a lot from vpinmame capability!

That said, authors like SLAMT1LT would still rather use his own code instead of the rom (and I would prefer that too, as I like what he does).

The biggest benefit by far would be the modern use of PuP's features directly.

I think 11 years is more than enough time to consider this an ok thing to do at this point.

@ravarcade would this possibly benefit you in any way with BAM or anything else you wanted to be able to do?


Last edited by TerryRed on Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:44 am
Posts: 7
Also not sure if BAM can patch the FP.exe on the fly but could be something as an option in BAM to do as an easier thing for support.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: Arkansas, USA
It looks cool to me and I am OK with the hack. I think most of these alternate EXE files are hacks:

http://www.pinsimdb.org/pinres/entry-16 ... able_files

You might send Ravarcade a private message. He might be able to add it to BAM although I don't think he likes true hacks. I think BAM tends to be just add ons. If you do a true hack, some of the guys have trouble with the drop targets not rendering. Some of the guys that do not use an Intel processor seem to have FP crash if they use an alternate EXE. This is why Rav added a new option to remove the watermark so these guys can continue to use the original EXE.

Rav is pretty ingenious and he might be able to do it without a true hack so send him a PM.

George


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 408
Location: Abbotsford
I will support anything that improves computer pinball in general, though I will have to say very uncomfortable with vpinmame in fp. It pretty much took over vp and I don't want us to become just a bunch of photocopiers like the vpx devs are mostly.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:17 pm 
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blue wrote:
I will support anything that improves computer pinball in general, though I will have to say very uncomfortable with vpinmame in fp. It pretty much took over vp and I don't want us to become just a bunch of photocopiers like the vpx devs are mostly.


I don't see vpinmame taking over, really. They have it down to a science on VPX, and they do it well for "authentic" rom emulation and arcade recreation. FP also has most of the popular tables already made for it...they just need modern BAM updates.

It may however open the doors to some VPX authors that like FP / BAM's nicer hardware lighting.

I like FP for the fact that it doesn't limit itself to rom emulation...and the table authors have shown what can be done without it.

I would think using vpinmame would be good for authors that are good at making a table...but not good at creating game code.



The "other" benefits I mentioned are more what I am excited for. Not sure if this would allow Rav to be able to do more with BAM somehow.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
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Location: Arkansas, USA
I think most of the tables that might use a ROM are already built. It might be useful to table builders because it is difficult sometimes to find rules for tables. If FP could use a ROM, the table builder could test how it works and duplicate it without actually using it.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:42 pm 
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Just to be clear...the intent of this was to allow for full PuP features, DOF, SSF support directly in FP. Vpinmame just happens to also work in a basic test as shown in the video (I don't think Nailbuster cared about that, really).

I honestly don't see VPinMAME getting too much traction from FP authors...but you never know.

I mainly care about SSF and PuP....and I would like DOF too, but DOFinx covers most of that nicely either way.


If another method could be used (not modding the exe) to do the same thing... I'm all for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible "Back to the Future Pinball" version
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
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Location: Abbotsford
TerryRed wrote:
I would think using vpinmame would be good for authors that are good at making a table...but not good at creating game code.


Something that the fpxEngine will give them the ability to do down the road anyway, remove the coding aspect almost completely, and give them the ability to create their own designs for their tables complete with complex scoring code in about 30 minutes, ready for custom code and graphics.

Coding was always the sore spot for vp and fp. A big trend is people just reskinning vpinmame tables now, not even changing the design of the table, which is a shame. We here have a huge advantage over vp just in the fact that we have to script, and we have far more knowledge in that respect.

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