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 Post subject: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:02 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Abbotsford
Having some problems with the ball going through gates. I have a very heavy ball in my game, but no matter what, the damn ball has problems going through gates no matter what physics are used. (Know problem with FP and gates, especially the "heavy gates") Here's my latest copy of the xml, so if someone can see how to prevent the ball getting stuck, let me know. (NOTE: this only happens with a top gate like used in Fantom, when the gate is perfectly horizontal, and the ball is traveling slowly downward)

Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<document>
  <!-- Custom Physics for JungleGirl -->
  <physics fps="296" threaded="1"></physics>
 <!-- Settings for various objects -->
  <ball newtonDamping="1" mass="45" gravity="5500" damping="1.25"></ball>
  <flipper rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,100.0}" newtonDamping="1" mass="99999" omega="36" moeMethod="0"
         leftXoff="0" leftYoff="1700" leftZoff="0"
        rightXoff="0" rightYoff="1700" rightZoff="0"></flipper>
  <bumper impulse="100.0" impulseRandomness="2" vectorRandomness="5"></bumper>
  <autoplunger mass="20000.0" force="60000.0"></autoplunger>
  <diverter mass="10000.0" omega="33.0"></diverter>
  <gate mass=".05" gravity="750.0" damping="0.05"></gate>
  <kicker impulse="1000.0" vukImpulse="1400.0" impulseRandomness="2" vectorRandomness="1"></kicker>
  <plunger mass="25000.0" force="35000.0"></plunger>
  <slingshot    impulse="600.0" impulseRandomness="12" vectorRandomness="5"></slingshot>
  <spindisk mass="10000.0" angularDamp="0.33" linearDamp="0.25"></spindisk>

  <spinner mass="60.0" gravity="100.0" angularDamp="0.25" angularAccel="5.25"
           spinDampLoose="0.55" spinBackLoose="1.70"
           spinDampNorm="0.75" spinBackNorm="1.80"
           spinDampTight="0.95" spinBackTight="1.90"></spinner>
  <emkicker mass="10000.0" omega="70.0"></emkicker>
  <varitarget mass="500.0" damping="0.9" tension="3.0" return="15.0"></varitarget>
  <magnet impulse="10.0" impulseRandomness="2"></magnet>

 <!-- Nugde Settings -->
  <nudge impulse="120.0" impulseRandomness="25.0" warningLevel="250" leftAngle="60" upAngle="0" rightAngle="320"
         vectorRandomness="5" visualDistance="1" waitPeriod="300" maxBallVelocity="500.0"></nudge>
  <!-- Materials Settings -->
  <defaultMat softnessCoef="0.02" elasticCoef="0.1" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></defaultMat>

  <!-- Material Settings for surfaces marked as playfields -->
  <playfieldMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.15" staticFriction="0.175" kineticFriction="0.075"></playfieldMat>

  <!-- Primary Material Types -->
  <metalMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.1" kineticFriction="0.05"></metalMat>
  <woodMat softnessCoef="0.03" elasticCoef="0.2" staticFriction="0.3" kineticFriction="0.15"></woodMat>
  <plasticMat softnessCoef="0.02" elasticCoef="0.1" staticFriction="0.2" kineticFriction="0.1"></plasticMat>
  <rubberHardMat softnessCoef="0.1" elasticCoef="0.60" staticFriction="0.5" kineticFriction="0.25"></rubberHardMat>
  <rubberIntMat softnessCoef="0.125" elasticCoef="0.70" staticFriction="0.55" kineticFriction="0.275"></rubberIntMat>
  <rubberSoftMat softnessCoef="0.15" elasticCoef="0.80" staticFriction="0.6" kineticFriction="0.3"></rubberSoftMat>

  <!-- Object Specific Material Settings -->
  <gateMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.65" staticFriction="0" kineticFriction="0"></gateMat>
  <kickerMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.8" kineticFriction="0.8"></kickerMat>
  <rampMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.01" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.01"></rampMat>
  <plungerMat softnessCoef="0.04" elasticCoef="0.55" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></plungerMat>
  <spindiskMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.5" staticFriction="1.5" kineticFriction="2"></spindiskMat>
 
</document>


NOTE 2: These are initial values, and are very experimental, so some values are very strange. This is just me fooling around trying to get FP to actually play like something resembling a pinball machine.

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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1703
Location: Arkansas, USA
I had problems with a gate on Creatures from the Black Lagoon (the gate at the exit from the launch lane). I changed the angle of the gate that helped. The ball still rarely but occasionally hits the gate and rolls back down to the plunger. Try changing the angle so it is at more of a right angle to the lane and be sure there is nothing in proximity of the gate that the ball might be hitting.

On Swords of Fury, I had a problem with a wire trigger at the top of a ramp where the ball would get stuck. I changed the wire trigger to a star trigger and that fixed it. I'm not sure what physics a wire trigger uses but it may use gate physics.

I noticed your gate mass is really low. I presume you set it up that way to address this issue. About the only thing I noticed is that the staticFriction and kineticFriction of your gate material is set to 0. I would suggest trying 0.00001 on both. I don't know if that will make any difference or not (probably not).

If you have placed the gate at or near the top of a ramp, I would suggest moving it closer to the beginning of the ramp. The ball has more speed and momentum near the beginning of a ramp so it will overcome the resistance of the gate better.

That is about all I can suggest. You could send me the table on a PM and I can try resolving it but no guarantees. I suspect the problem has more to do with the configuration of the objects on the table than with the physics.

George


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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Abbotsford
Thanks, but all of the things you suggested won't work anyway. It's the same setup that Bally used, Fathom,EBChamp, a custom 180 mm gate with the ball hitting the inline targets and dropping down. I put up a screenshot so you can see how it's setup. Alas, the ball also goes through it both ways no matter what, so there's a wall to block the ball, it does not interfere at all. I may try the angle, I do that all the time and it is usually just one side this happens. The only other way is to just make the wire a toy. Bloody gates, ban of our existence.

I use star triggers anyway, to get around another bug with FP that is just as annoying. Thanks for noticing the static friction, forgot to change that one back.

Ignore the xml, posted the wrong one anyway. Doesn't work, as I was trying to figure out the ball newtonDamping in my xml, which apparently doesn't work other than bringing the ball to a complete standstill. :)

Maybe better instructions are needed....


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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1703
Location: Arkansas, USA
The object that says "Front" looks more like a spinner than a gate.

George


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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Abbotsford
At the very top george, in the center just below the set of 3 inline targets. It's a long gate and a bracket.

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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1703
Location: Arkansas, USA
Interesting. I have never seen a gate like that.

George


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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Abbotsford
Stock bally part. Only used on 2 or 3 games in 1981 and 82(?)(8ball champ year i believe) Surprised you dont remember it from the fathom table. 8ball. Champ was just released for fp a little while ago. Both pretty good games fathom is a real classic though

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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:46 pm
Posts: 320
look at the gate section of one of my old post on physics:

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4365&p=65563&hilit=gate#p65563


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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:46 pm
Posts: 320
and lookk to the physics file of my last table (totan/wc94)


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 Post subject: Re: xml Physics - Gates
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:05 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Abbotsford
Thanks Smoke, but already fixed it. Will have a look at yoursthough

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