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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 930
Update.

- added "newtonDamping" param in XML for <ball> and <flipper>. It is in "Physics Tweak" menu displayed as "Newton Damping".
When you save XML it that value will be saved.
If you use that XML with old BAM, FP will just ignore it.

That param in FP for BALL is set to ZERO and for FLIPPER is set to ONE (1.0).
For BALL you will probably keep it =zero.
For FLIPPER it may be usefull.

Try this set params for flippers:
Omega = 5
Newton Damping = 1
When you press SHIFT, flipper will start move, when it will slow down and stop before it will reach final position.

Now change "Newton Damping" to 0.3
When you press SHIFT, flipper will start move, when it will slow down but only little bit and will reach final position.

Now change "Newton Damping" to 0.0
When you press SHIFT, flipper will start move. Rotation speed will be constant. No slow down.

---------------------------------
I try to control "Start angle" and "Swing" for flippers, but it require a lot more work, than i was expeting. I have to replace FP code used to control flippers.

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current BAM version: v1.4-240, released: Aug 16, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1703
Location: Arkansas, USA
Thanks Rafal! I will give it a try. I remember one of the guys saying once that flippers don't have enough settings. It looks like that situation will be better.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2132
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
I try to control "Start angle" and "Swing" for flippers, but it require a lot more work, than i was expeting. I have to replace FP code used to control flippers.


Thanks Rav !! :D

This is awesome ! The ability to save real time changes to savetablename.xml is great !


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 930
For better understanding of FP flippers here is "flipper-chart":
Image

(it will be in next BAM.dll).

On that chart you have:
- RED: angle ( time)
- YELLOW: energy ( time )
- GREEN: energy ( angle )
Every circle on chart is value taken from newton-engine after single simulation step.

Info:
In FP you can set "omega". It is rotation speed.
rotation speed = energy.

RED.
First half of chart: stright line up = flipper is moving up. When it hits maxim rotation angle.
Here is first FP-physics-trick: When flipper rotation angle is above maximum (52 deg), FP will set flipper rotation to maximum, before every sim step. So, in sim flipper will not move above maximum and slowly rotate down to maximum, but will ~10 times will be rotated from maximim (52 deg) to few deg above maximum. In every step little less.

YELLOW.
Among of energy passed to ball if it will hit flipper in specified time.

-------

I still work on flipper-monitoring/logging.
For now you can think how that charts should look.

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current BAM version: v1.4-240, released: Aug 16, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2132
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks Rafal !!

I think I understand

Quote:
On that chart you have:
- RED: angle ( time)
- YELLOW: energy ( time )
- GREEN: energy ( angle )


basically we have 3 different graphs superimposed....

1. Red has angle on y- axis of chart and time on x-axis
So you push and hold flipper button and flipper will swing to its set maximum swing angle and then the chart levels off (as it is no longer swinging)

2.Yellow graph has energy on y-axis and time on x-axis.
So when you push flipper button and hold flipper button ,it swings and gradually loses
energy over time until swing is completed and which point energy falls to zero

3. Green graph has energy on y- axis and angle on x-axis
So when you push flipper button and hold flipper button energy gradually decrease as flipper swings until swing is completed at which point energy falls to zero

So currently with physic tweaks we can play with energy (omega) and time (flipper dampening) but not angle.....


Question on another topic:
do you have debug code that will show when each flipper is being struck by ball?

With Blue's flipper mod it would be very helpful to know when small hidden flipper is being hit vs the long visible one

it's possible that the small hidden flipper is doing nothing unless place properly with proper omega and swing....


Thx again


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2132
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Question on another topic:
do you have debug code that will show when each flipper is being struck by ball?

With Blue's flipper mod it would be very helpful to know when small hidden flipper is being hit vs the long visible one

it's possible that the small hidden flipper is doing nothing unless place properly with proper omega and swing....


With blue's flipper mod, we have small hidden flipper superimposed over a longer visible flipper.

The small invisible flipper has to "win" and there are several ways to accomplish this, I think:

1.Stagger the flippers on table editor , so small invisible one overhangs a bit. This will
cause a slight bump when ball rolls over flippers

2.use flipper models that aren't perfectly the same shape as each other

3.have omega on short flippers higher (so they are faster than long flippers)

4.It is possible that a short flipper is faster all other things being equal , as in theory
it takes less time to swing a shorter "lever".

Anyways being able to monitor with debug, will really help to see if the flipper mod is working properly.....


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 930
Gimli wrote:
...
So currently with physic tweaks we can play with energy (omega) and time (flipper dampening) but not angle....

In last BAM.dll you have "Newton Damping". You can control how fast omega fall. But only in small range. If you set Newton Damping = 0, whan on chart omega/energy will be constants until flipper reach maximum angle.

Gimli wrote:
do you have debug code that will show when each flipper is being struck by ball?

With Blue's flipper mod it would be very helpful to know when small hidden flipper is being hit vs the long visible one

Not exacly. I have code executed, when newton-physics process ball/flipper collision. It is executed always, ball is in contact with flipper, not only at begin or end of contact. When ball rolls over filpper it is exectued too.
So i can detect when and with flipper is in contact with ball.

Gimli wrote:
it's possible that the small hidden flipper is doing nothing unless place properly with proper omega and swing....

Not realy. Flipper is activated by script, but i have no way to trigger/execute function in VBS.

-----------
I don't know what is reason to use another invisible flipper.
Look at flipper-ball-contacts:
Image

A) Right now ball at points 1 or 3 is hitted harder than ball at point 2 or 4. When you set "newton damping" = 0, when they will be hit with same energy. Anyway we can add to BAM own function/characteristic: energy ( angle) . So we can hit ball harder at points 2 and 4 than at points 1 and 3.
So if you use second invisible flipper to make it faster and hit ball at points 2 or 4 harder than at points 1 or 3, when we can solve it without additional flipper.

B) Right now ball at points 2 will be pushed in same direction as ball at point 4. Same with ball no. 1 and ball no. 3.
If you want to change ball direction with we can use special/deformed flipper ball. Line between 2 circles in flipper model don't have to be stright.

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http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.4-240, released: Aug 16, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2132
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
So i can detect when and with flipper is in contact with ball.

yes that is exactly what I wanted....in blue's model....the ball should never contact the
first half of the long flipper



Quote:
then we can solve it without additional flippers.


Wow, that is very promising....to not have to use hidden flippers zed or otherwise...


Quote:
B) Right now ball at points 2 will be pushed in same direction as ball at point 4. Same with ball no. 1 and ball no. 3.
If you want to change ball direction with we can use special/deformed flipper ball. Line between 2 circles in flipper model don't have to be stright.


Special deformed flipper ball ? What do you mean?
So it has nothing to do with the model we use....but BAM redefines internal physical shape concept
of the line between the two circles on you flipper diagram above. The circle at the base of the flipper and the circle at the tip

That is basically what the hidden small flipper was trying to accomplish....

This also sounds very promising...


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 930
Quote:
If you want to change ball direction with we can use special/deformed flipper ball.

should be "special/deformed flipper". Word "ball" is there by mistake.

Image

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http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.4-240, released: Aug 16, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:25 pm 
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Posts: 2132
Location: Ontario, Canada
:o :shock: Hehehe that is very cool :lol:


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