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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:25 am
Posts: 166
I was wondering, with this it seems that making a lower level playfield is easier.

Can the image of the box (projected playfield) be rotated? Can this provide a reverse-sloped lower level playfield? Haunted House comes to mind.

How about vertical playfield aswell? Having the box projected on to the backboard.
If possible tables like 'Double Action' or 'Banzai Run' could be made. The Pinball Circus could be a possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2125
Location: Ontario, Canada
very cool ideas Miownkhan !! We'll se what Rav thinks, but all those sound very doable.

The one I have been wondering about, and it is probably too technically difficult and would slow down the FPS likely, is the Indiana jones minplayfield that shakes laterally with the flippers and makes the ball move left to right

The so called "Path of Adventure"

for this I wondered about 2 possibilities

1.Real changing slope:
I notice that FP lets you change slope in the positive top to bottom "y-axis" only between 1-10. So games that have a fixed slope, in any direction then miniplayfield rotation only should be adequate.

However if somehow you could code from -10 to +10 in the "y-axis" , but were unable to change slope in the side to side "x-axis", you could rotate the miniplayfield 90 degrees and then with flipper coding somehow toggle the slope between positive and minus and the ball would roll from left to right automatically with the FP physics.

2.Illusion of changing slope:
I am not sure if Rav's new ball tracking will allow coding to move the ball?
If so, you could code subtle incremental movement of the ball left and right with flipper coding when the miniplayfield mode is active. ( similar coding to the graduated plunger pull coding that Popotte and GF use sometimes) and this might create the illusion of the ball being impacted by side slope.

In order to have a corresponding visual illusion of the miniplayfield changing slope, BAM would have be able to adust the side to side angle of the miniplayfield also with flippers, also in a graduated way.

Anyways, the tables you mentioned Miownkhan, I believe are much more doable.
But challenge of a left to right shaking miniplayfield is interesting. I admit this is a very low priority....but it is fun considering possibilities....and Indiana Jones is the "Holy Grail"
top downloaded table at PinsimDb :D


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2125
Location: Ontario, Canada
The other thing that I just realized, and I guess it should be obvious, is Rav's Miniplayfield mod is really Rav's any object you want of any scale and in any place on table mod.

I think with models, we can already do this ( move and rotate them), like the mine cart in Shootanza.

But with this mod we can do this with all table objects. And Scale them up and down on the fly..they will be illusions superimposed the actual table, but could create some interesting effects....like a shrinking man

just put a model into the orange box and move the green box to where you want and set the scale and enter the code into the script at each point/scale you want.

At least I think this make sense?


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 930
@miownkhan, @Gimli:
Well... all that can be done. Few ideas are good, few easy to do, few are terrible.

Remember, that visual part is separated from physics simulation.

Visual:
1. Adding rotation (in any or all axis) is not a problem to code it. It will also not have in impact on performance. But it creates another problem. Any rotation must be placed arount selected point. Right now that selected point is (0,0,0) = center of table. It is easy to add rotation but it will be hard to control it in script and change it during play. Every time you change rotation, you will move mini-playfield and you will need to move target location.
(*1*)A. Addidng rotation now will allow only for static mini-playfield, like in hunted house.
B. I can completly redesign how mini-playfield definition. It will make definition of mini-playfield little more complicated. In comparision to current one function with 10 arguments i have to add:
- 3 values to define point: "center of rotation"
- 3 values to rotate playfield.
Well, in that case i would probably prefer to replace funtion with object.... I stop planing it here... for now

2. We have only one mini-playfield. I would like to stay with one. It is easy to manage. Do we need more than one?

3. Reflections in mini-playfield. It is question for table devs. You can have 2 (or more?) playfield levels, 2 surface where ball can roll on different level. Like mini-playfield above main playfield or sinked inside playfield. It is posible for FP to have "correct" reflections of objects on both playfields? Like peg on main playfield can have correct reflection in main playfield and bumper on "mini-playfield" can have correct reflection in "mini-playfield"? (Remember, that mini-playfield is not on same level as main).

Physics:
1. Moving ball during play by BAM is bad idea. I will completly break physics. Many errors will occur. Like ball falling outside table or under table.
2. Table slope / gravity is (for now) constant. Value is set in XML physics config.
(*2*) 3. Is possible, but not so easly, to modify "gravity direction" on the fly for selected ball. This is best posible way to create whole set of mini-playfields effects.

-------
(*1*) Is enough for "hunted house"
(*2*) Is needed for IJ "Path of Adventure" or to create phiscs sim for vertical playfield in 'Double Action' or 'Banzai Run'. Visual rotation of mini-playfield is not enought for vertical-playfield.

So here is list of tasks for me:
1. Redefine mini-playfield to add rotation.
2. Add ability to change rotation smoothly during play in script.
3. Find way to modify "gravity" (strenght and direction) for selected ball (not all balls, but only for one on mini-playfield).
4. Find way to modify "gravity" during gameplay on script requests (for IJ Path of advanture)
5. Add more than one mini-playfields (?)

Well it is a lot of work. I realy like to play with VR gogles first. So i will look again on it after i finsh VR mode for FP.

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current BAM version: v1.4-240, released: Aug 16, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2125
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Well... all that can be done. Few ideas are good, few easy to do, few are terrible.


Sounds like the Clint Eastwood "The Good, the bad and the ugly" :lol:

Rav you just keep doing amazing stuff with BAM and it keeps giving me dumb ideas.

I think Miownkhan's were the good....sorry :)

Please do not bother redoing the miniplayfield code especially if will slow things down.

And please carry on with the vr work !

Here is a video of table with "The incredible Shrinking Donkey!" :D
https://youtu.be/JegH1YK-U-8


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:50 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Paris - France
ravarcade wrote:
...
So here is list of tasks for me:
1. Redefine mini-playfield to add rotation.
2. Add ability to change rotation smoothly during play in script.
3. Find way to modify "gravity" (strenght and direction) for selected ball (not all balls, but only for one on mini-playfield).
4. Find way to modify "gravity" during gameplay on script requests (for IJ Path of advanture)
5. Add more than one mini-playfields (?)

Well it is a lot of work. I realy like to play with VR gogles first. So i will look again on it after i finsh VR mode for FP.

First, take your time, you are not our slave, just a really good fellow.
Second, and it's paradoxal (see first), as in your 4) you can change gravity, could you change for a ball (not only on mini playfield), could you change on the fly (and by script) the XBAM_Ball.Velocity.X .Y and .Z?
Third, have fun with VR.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 930
Popotte wrote:
... could you change for a ball (not only on mini playfield), could you change on the fly (and by script) the XBAM_Ball.Velocity.X .Y and .Z? ...

Change gravit/forces on all balls or any selected: yes.
Change velocity? only by changing forces. Velocity is result of forces. If it change only velocity physics engine may give wird results.

_________________
http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.4-240, released: Aug 16, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Miniplayfields (Small Ball)
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 4:57 pm
Posts: 1063
Location: Turin-ITALY
Your idea of this BAM
usage is fantastic. Compliments Rav !
I just wanted to do a little note: It is not possible to use "Cookie Cut from Global Texture" for 5 plastic, with a single texture.
Greetings and thanks again
Gianfranco


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