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 Post subject: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 1564
Yeah! I have fix the physics in FP :lol:
Ok now that I have your attention..not really, but....

You all know how much I like finding workaround when it comes to FP mysteries
think I have a good one here. What's it do..

We all know that the FP ball is 27-28mm in size. Starting from that an knowing how imperfect the physic integration of this model is in FP, I decided to give a little 3D trick a chance, with surprising result..


Attachment:
heavyBall.zip



In order for the ball not to fly out and be as a loose cannon as it is naturally in FP, I simply made a transparent surface at 27mm height covering the entire playfield. Of course, that make the ball flying not really possible anymore. The experiment would be satisfying enough at this point but I decided to push it a little more.

What if the surface was 26mm height? well the ball is expulse from the kicker but stop really fast because of the friction of the ball between the playfield and the transparent constraint. so why not tweeking it with decimal...

It is impossible in FP to enter other thing than integer in the surface height property box BUT not in FPM Editor so why not raise the entire floor a little more with an object....

So I've created a grid with Milkshape which size fit the PF size. it is fully centered at x0,y0,z0. I now put a collision shape on it of 1..then 0.5...then 0.25 until I'm satisfied with the friction of the ball.. the final height of the collision shape I use in this experiment is 0.05mm wich is enough to be consider by FP without any apparent bug, at least on my side.

i included the whole thing in the Power Bumper test table and I'd like it to be tested maybe I have found something, maybe not...

but for sure
1. now the ball won't fly out
2. it does'nt spin anymore endlessly
3. it feels more ''heavy'' and motion less heratic
4. friction is tweakable

In case any of you wonder, there would be no problem with ramps and upperPF as well so don't worry about that.

but again this is on my side, maybe I am missing something. Let me know if nothing of this is just illusion on my side and I'll go cry in shame in the corner of my office. :lol:

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:55 pm
Posts: 2912
Sounds great.
Shall we start TDK again? ;)


GLXB

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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:10 pm 
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TDK already have constraint where most of the fly out was occuring
we should be good :)


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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:02 pm
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So I'm wanting to try this out on my table but I can't figure out what parts are necessary. I've exported the FP model "pfconstraint9". Is the "upperconstraint" surface used in the table required to recreate the effect?

When I just use the "pfconstraint9" model the ball doesn't go into any kickers (drain). Its as if the ball is rolling on top of a glass surface.

I noticed in the sample HeavyBall.fpt example that if I remove the Guides that keep the ball from draining between the flippers that the ball won't go down the drain so it looks like a core aspect of this "heavy ball constraint" design won't work.

Maybe drains have to be on a surface slightly above the constraint surface?

-mark


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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 1564
Try this for a starter. deconstructing the effect will help you master what should happen to the ball. so you can apply it to your own case.

1 Take a new table.

2 put a couple of bumper.

3 Make a large surface covering the entire playfield

4 make it completely transparent with the Transparentperfect.tga I posted the other day.

5 now experiment with the height of this surface. knowing that a 27mm it wil completely squeeze the ball and the ball will be stucked in molasse..

try different Height for the surface and analyse what is the impact on the ball motion.
My surface just "lift" the pf to 0.05mm whihc is enough to compress the ball to make it look heavier.

Quote:
Maybe drains have to be on a surface slightly above the constraint surface?


You pick that stuff really quickly..Congrats :D

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:50 am
Posts: 1124
Location: Paris - France
Great idea, Steve! But
Steve wrote:
It is impossible in FP to enter other thing than integer in the surface height property box BUT not in FPM Editor so why not raise the entire floor a little more with an object....

you can enter a non integer for surface...

So, you just have to create a 26,95 mm bottom surface and it's work. And you don't have trouble with kickers and so on. And if you have ramps, ... you just create the adequate surface.

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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:23 am 
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I tought about it afterward, when I looked at the height of the inlane plastic..
Silly me..But it proved me something along the way, with the proper method of constraining your ball height, there is no more fly out and the ball seems more natural.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: FPM EDITOR : PF Constraint (heavier ball effect)
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:37 am 
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Location: Paris - France
Steve wrote:
..But it proved me something along the way, with the proper method of constraining your ball height, there is no more fly out and the ball seems more natural.

Steve

Yes, really... And bumpers (powered or not) are more powerfull.

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Les cons ça ose tout. C'est même à  ça qu'on les reconnaît.
My tables avalaible at http://www.pinsimdb.org/fpreleases/ and http://www.irpinball.org/
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Le prix s'oublie, la qualité reste


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