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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:09 am 
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Location: Paris - France
franzleo wrote:
Also I have 64-bit Windows, but I've never had the problem crashing ..... strange ..... maybe because I stayed with the old Windows 7 Home premium. I've never liked Win10.
Greetings
Gianfranco

Me too...

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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
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Location: Arkansas, USA
It will crash if you accidentally leave the option checked for "Load Images into Table Editor" after you edit a table and play it. For me, the more usual problem is the frame rate slows down when it starts running short on memory.

What do you guys do when you want to edit a table that has more than 800 objects?

George


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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Location: Turin-ITALY
GeorgeH wrote:
.....What do you guys do when you want to edit a table that has more than 800 objects?......George


It never happened to me. I think I would load it with FP of Slam and then reduce the number of objects.

Gianfranco


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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:54 pm
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Location: Sicily-Italy
Also I, have 64-bit Windows....and I've never had a crash problem, except if this feature is activated "Load Images into Table Editor",how , says george.if I forget to take it off.

I, do not think even dream of changing a table, with more than one 800 objects,sorry.

however, in many factors, this can happen.....the crash.....type..a bit memory ram, directx versions, which version of windows, the graphics card, the processor(at what frequency), how much it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 283
Location: Abbotsford
Not helpful if you are building a table and need images. The 64 bit also has other advantages as well, addressing more memory etc. It just makes to much sense to use a 64bit FP on a 64bit Windows.

The thing that has been mentioned is the object limit, and I feel the object limit sucks. it's one of many forced restrictions with FP, and it will always be there because of developers, we have to think about people who still use the stock exe. The one question I have just thinking about it towards Rav is if it is possible to EXCLUDE certain elements like walls/surfaces/basic lights from the object count like VP has done since the beginning. The ability to use just walls to build multiple things like VP would give us the ability to do a whole new range of things, like textures with rubbers, lighting effects etc that would make the tables better, and look better. The one useful thing about VP is we can always steal those ideas, and walls/surfaces/lights/ramps etc do not take much in resources compared to models.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
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Location: Arkansas, USA
Blue,

Something that I have noticed is that I must use the Zed exe to edit a table that has > 800 objects like the Zed version of "Lord of the Rings". But then I can just use the default original FP exe to play the table and not have any problems. It seems pretty weird to be but it is true, at least on my PC.

George


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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:41 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
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Location: Abbotsford
It would be hard to know why that is the case without seeing the actual source code. The exe will throw up a warning in the editor if we go over 800, that we know is built into FP, and we can't change it. We can change the object limit and go over then, but how is that possible to get over that limit in stock FP? I have the problem with one exe with that, never occurred to me the stock exe was fine. I would guess then there may be no actual model limit in FP, just a couple checks set to a number. One we can change the other we can't.

Interesting idea if that is the case.

Has anyone ever had a good look at the contents within the FPT file when it is done and saved by different exe's, and noted any changes within those files? That's pretty high end stuff, but I am just wondering about that. That may account for it George, or Black just missed it with his security coding.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
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Location: Arkansas, USA
Black wrote code to restrict the number of objects when a table is created. So why code it to prevent playing a table that has too many objects since they can't be added in the first place? I'm guessing the 800 limit is somewhat arbitrary and probably put there to keep from using too many resources. PCs now days have more resources so adding more than 800 objects doesn't cause any problems. It seems like the large size of texture files causes more crashes than the number of objects.

George


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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:24 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
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Location: Abbotsford
Yeah, because 32 bit versions can only address 4 gigs of memory, while 64 bit programs can address far more. There's lots of texture swapping, and one of the things we were all trying to figure out is if FP was clearing out the memory cache (or something like that) or we were loading in a certain amount of textures in file size and we were going over the limit of what a 32 bit progam can handle. I have noticed the same problem with my experiments with vpx (which is also 32 bit), it suddenly crashes as well after 45 minutes of use unless I save, exit then reload the program. That could be hardware, maybe the Video card or mouse drivers, as my computer is a year old, is pretty damn powerful, and everything is up to date.

As to Black and his code, he more than likely did it the simplest way possible, exactly how you and I would do it. In VBscript, pretty simple...

Code:
Dim Object limit
Object limit = 800
' lots of code till...
Sub security check
If Object limit>800 then
 ' Run message box in editor telling over limit
End If
End sub


I know he could change that limit any time he wanted to, and well, he had his reasons for including things like walls etc as well. He left it the way it is though, which is the big shame. But he didn't, so if we want things to continue, just going to have to do things ourselves. FP can still have it's place, not even as a competitor to vpx, but as something that can work in place with vpx, and really should.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Pinball 2.0 (idea/project)
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 4:57 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: Turin-ITALY
Even if I do not know it all right, I think Bam has a lot of utilities that can help us.
In my opinion there is no one who is able to make the whole list of Bam commands with simple explanations and attached example. Only Rafal can do it. :mrgreen:
We will be able to open a new "Bam Commands" tread where we will all put the commands that we know and have used. If someone does not understand something or wants clarification, he should use another tread.
To start with, I could publish the command to use the magnet. I used it already in "Dragons Keep". George (if you want) could put the command for no limits of the score .... etc.
Greetings
Gianfranco


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